Am I asking for trouble?

[Matthew]

I don't think it would matter what car I bought, they are all going to cost money. If I spend 15k on a cruiser I'm still going to have to spend another 5-6k on it to make it as capable as a sierra.

[billbarbas]

No, not necessarily. You will be able to do 100km, no matter which way the wind is blowing, you 'll be able to tow and carry a serious load if that's your thing.
Dont get me wrong, I love my zuk, but I wouldnt do it all over again. But the fact that you have a 4by that you dont have to worry about if you hit it and dont have to clean before work the next day is what appeals.

[gwagensteve]

As someone who's had a couple of goes at building newer cars, I'd disagree Bill - I think saying you can buy a 100 series for $15K and that that's a better car than a built sierra is missing the point - a better car at what?

Personally, I couldn't think of anything worse than a 2500kg, undertyred, underpowered, worn out, bulky, 100 series in the bush. I was sick of the bulk and expense of the hiluxes I had, and the lack of capability, even with twin lockers and swampers. So I sold the hilux and bought a car that was good at daily driving and a car that was good at off road work.

Every part (except airlockers) you want to put on a big car is going to cost more money. a fuel pump rebuild alone is going to cost $1500 - the same price as a whole changeover motor for a sierra. There's heaps of guys like Matt (or me) who don't have the budget to build a newer car but try and end up with a 1/2 built, compromised car without a front locker or with tyres that are too small or they smash it and are then without a daily driver because all their money is in their off road car.

The $10K built sierra might be a bit of a myth, but the big proviso here is what value you put on the learning process, the skills and the pride you have in actually building something, rather than the "bolt on" approach. I haven't added up what's in my 660 car, but I'd say I'm not far over the $10K mark, if any, but I don't have labour in the equasion. However, what I can do in my 660 can go beyond what most big cars can do, and I've assembled every bit of it myself, and noone else has modified that car the same way. That's fun and part of the point of buying and building old cars.

Additionally, the $10K, or $15K or whatever, can be worked through over a long period. Look at something like Michael's car - the money Michael has in that he's spent over a 4 year period, not all in one hit. He's now got a pretty good outcome and learned heaps on the way.

He also now has a really good set of parts to move into the next project should he want a LWB or something so the investment he has in that car is as uch in a collection of well sorted parts rather than in a car. That's quite different to "big car" ownership.

Don't get me wrong - big cars have their place, but a big car isn't a build project like a sierra is.

Steve.

[Matthew]

That covers everything i was thinking plus more. In particular i like that i don't have to outlay 10k+ and then spend more on modifying it. Yes i would like to build the mythical 10k sierra. In reality i know that it will cost more, but i can spend the money over a period of time and if i can't afford something one week i can wait a while until i can without being with no car.

[mightymouse]

Not jumping in on either side but its also important to assess just what your level of mechanical expertiese is and what facilities you have available to you. Also how much time your prepared to put into a build.

Some have no facilities and expertiese so labor to get a job done is a VERY significant cost and makes a "cheap" build a real problem. Others have everything on hand and can get great outcomes for almost nothing.

The "trick" IMO is to know what camp you fit into before you make assumptions about build costs.
Comparing cars that were "bought" vs "built" can lead to really expensive mistakes.

Some components we make would not be at all viable to have done at commercial rates( thinking of a certain front diff..... ).

[gwagensteve]

Absolutely Ross - couldn't agree more.

However, an owner is far more likely to have a crack at a job on a <$1000 sierra than on a $15000 landcruiser, because the consequences of failure are far lower.

Also, I like to think of a car building budget including tools- Like the old Proverb, give the man a fish and he eats for a day but teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

I can spend a day building a bracket or tab or box or something and I might be happy with it, I might not- but it was my work and my time, and if I don't like it I can make it again. If I pay someone to make something for me I'm stuck with it. sure, I've got a big shed and a lot of tools, but I've been assembling my collection of stuff over a lot of years but my primary tools are a basic toolbox, a 4" grinder and a $1200 welder.

I know not everyone has the space for tools, but having the mindset to learn the skill rather than pay for the service is what marks a key difference between a car purchased to do a job and a car purchased as a project.

Steve.

[robsjimny]

Dont waste your money, you'll blow 10 -15K easy. Buy something newer. Saw a 100 series cruiser that was stock for 15K, that would do a hell of lot even in stock form. It depends on what you want. Those that say they can build a weapon for under 10K are full of it IMO.

IMO If you know what to are doing yes. Someone like Steve could easily do under 10g. Say A $2500 sierra 6.5 transfer gear a little height and 32's will a great car vs a large car. Daryl's sierra is great not sure of the dollars thoe. A lot of large 4b owners pay for a lot of work to get done. It all bolt on stuff. I love the cheaper / smaller car as your more willing fix things yourself. Great on fuel too. 100 series 1998 at 15g do the maths 1o years and has lost about 30g's or more.

[gwagensteve]

Additionally, it's easy to look at a really big or radically modified car and say a sierra isn't buildable for $10K.

A car with a 2" BL, a spooled rear, transfer gears and some 2nd had 31's on it doesn't have a lot of money in it and can pretty much run wherever you want.

It's all the bling that adds up.

Steve.

[cj!]

I know the 100 Series that Bill was referring to and it was definately not as old as '98 and it was not worn out either and it has sold........but as has been mentioned there are plenty of ways to look at this from.

Can you build or not? What outcome are you trying to achieve? What is the budget? I'm enjoying my build although the distance is an issue Yes, I am spending a bit more earlier in the piece than originally anticipated but I have decided that I really don't want to be tearing it down for another build in the near future seeing as I already have it as far apart as it can get. At the end of the day I will have created something a little unique to suit my requirements and hopefully it will last me sometime. Spreading that cost over the years of planned use does ease the pain somewhat.

Having had daily drivers that also see offroad work I do believe that particulary if it is meant for playtime too rather than relatively easy touring type trips then if you can afford it, a second vehicle for playtime is a better outcome. I know that I want to do the sort of things that may end up causing some damage and that on these types of trips I will not have my family in the car so I don't need more room than the trayback has plus I still need a car to drive come Monday morning.

Can a capable Sierra be built for less than $10,000? Of course but it does depend on what compromises you are willing to make and what you can do yourself. Heck just lock the back, put some decent rubber on it and gear it appropriately and it will more do than most other vehicles and christover has shown what can be achieved on a limited budget. There are things that I have for mine that are not needed at all really but I wanted to play.

[Gallagags]

For me the build was more than just the end outcome, I really enjoyed the learning process that I have been through. That is why I didn't mind doing it in stages, as it gave a better feel for the way the car was progressing. I don't know how much money I have in my car to date, and I don't really want to know that because it makes me feel bad because I have all that money tied up in a car that I'm scared to drive on the road. Having said that, when i'm in the bush I love it. Worst case if it did get taken off the road I have very little money built into the car that I couldn't swap into another one (which would be engineered). I believe that if you are not interested in the build process and only want wheeling it would make it a lot harder because it can sometimes be hard to see the light and the end of the tunnel, (because there is no end) but if you are not in a rush and are passionate you will learn a lot and have a great time. I have stuffed heaps of stuff up that I have had to redo or Steve has had to fix, but there is very little in a Sierra that you could stuff up and not fix, so why not cut first and measure later.