The K6A comes with a air/air intercooler but it could be better and I also feel that a water/air intercooler would be a better choice for my application. As I don't want to spend a lot doing this I have looked around and Subaru have used a water/air intercooler on the Liberty I can get for a reasonable price. The Bosch electric water pump discussed in another thread seems to be the way to go and the other requirement is a radiator to help cool the water. The Subaru radiator used for this purpose is 450 x 350 x 30mm but I have a Sierra air con condenser that measure 470 x 315 x 25mm and it also comes with a thermo which is a bonus as well as it's obvious ease of fitment. Now the Subaru radiator has a larger capacity than the Sierra a/c condenser but having seen the Bosch pump in action it flows a lot and is good for something like 20l/min at least compared to the Subaru pump at 15l/min and with the addition of the thermo fan I think it should suffice especially considering the Subaru setup is designed for a vehicle with around three times the power.
Dimensions of intercooler are as follows--
400 x 220 x 70-have not taken into account the "cutaway" corners.
Outlet:70mm OD, 66mm ID.
Inlet: 50mm OD, 42mm ID
Water Air Intercooler
Moderator: Committee
Water Air Intercooler
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mightymouse
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Re: Water Air Intercooler
Man - that's one ugly intercooler.... but if the price is right much ( almost anything ) can be forgiven.
PWR units start from around $500 so if cost is a factor........
A/C condensers are not uncommon as radiators for the IC so your on the right track IMO - but it still looks like a mutant octopus.
PWR units start from around $500 so if cost is a factor........
A/C condensers are not uncommon as radiators for the IC so your on the right track IMO - but it still looks like a mutant octopus.
Re: Water Air Intercooler
Yes, it is definately not as nice as a PWR ( my first choice ) but they can be picked up in NZ for NZD$20 - $50 and I have someone coming over soon so the price is definately right. They are fitted to a 150kW engine and supposedly good for 200kW so given that the K6A is 47kW standard I think I can live with it given the price.
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mightymouse
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Re: Water Air Intercooler
You make a compelling argument 
Re: Water Air Intercooler
70 NZ peso's 
should have it here next month.
The other thing I believe Subaru do is normally run their pump at 40% and increase it 100% under full boost.
should have it here next month.The other thing I believe Subaru do is normally run their pump at 40% and increase it 100% under full boost.
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Re: Water Air Intercooler
I figured for the price I might as well buy the whole lot. I could get a Bosch pump for it and sell the Subaru pump on ebay.
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mightymouse
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Re: Water Air Intercooler
In many respects intercoolers for working 4WD's are more akin to diesel applications.
Most ( and I am refering to factory petrol installations ) intercooler systems do not have sufficient heat disipation capability to shed the charges heat on a continuous basis - rather they act as a heat sink that soaks up the heat generated by boost during accelleration and then shed it again over a longer timeframe. Air/Water coolers are more effective in these applications as they operate as a more effective heat sink ( water has a much higher thermal capacity than air ), but the heat still has to be disipated eventually.
Diesels however are generally continuous boost applications, so the IC gets no chance to recover thermally and has to be sized to operate on a continuous basis. If you have a small engine that's on boost a lot then the stock factory IC could very well be too small - especially if you have low vehicle and air speeds.
BUT... large air/air intercoolers have a large internal volume which can lead to nasty driveability issues - once again air/water win as the intercooler can be quite compact resulting in lower manifold volumes but the radiator very large.
So think and design very carefully for small frequent boost petrol instalations - the intercooler needs to be larger then originally fitted and have high airflow to be effective on a continuous basis. Air/Water units win out BUT the radiator end needs to be very substantial to work correctly. Once again the original fit factory components are unlikely to be large enough.
cj!'s Subaru air/water cooler shows prommise for his 660 but the water end is likely to be marginal for continuous boost. Lots of cooling fan will be required for continuous low peed work IF boost is used.
Get it wrong and you'll have skyrocketing charge temperatures under sustained load with the subsequent risk of detonation and other expensive engine issues
Most ( and I am refering to factory petrol installations ) intercooler systems do not have sufficient heat disipation capability to shed the charges heat on a continuous basis - rather they act as a heat sink that soaks up the heat generated by boost during accelleration and then shed it again over a longer timeframe. Air/Water coolers are more effective in these applications as they operate as a more effective heat sink ( water has a much higher thermal capacity than air ), but the heat still has to be disipated eventually.
Diesels however are generally continuous boost applications, so the IC gets no chance to recover thermally and has to be sized to operate on a continuous basis. If you have a small engine that's on boost a lot then the stock factory IC could very well be too small - especially if you have low vehicle and air speeds.
BUT... large air/air intercoolers have a large internal volume which can lead to nasty driveability issues - once again air/water win as the intercooler can be quite compact resulting in lower manifold volumes but the radiator very large.
So think and design very carefully for small frequent boost petrol instalations - the intercooler needs to be larger then originally fitted and have high airflow to be effective on a continuous basis. Air/Water units win out BUT the radiator end needs to be very substantial to work correctly. Once again the original fit factory components are unlikely to be large enough.
cj!'s Subaru air/water cooler shows prommise for his 660 but the water end is likely to be marginal for continuous boost. Lots of cooling fan will be required for continuous low peed work IF boost is used.
Get it wrong and you'll have skyrocketing charge temperatures under sustained load with the subsequent risk of detonation and other expensive engine issues
Re: Water Air Intercooler
I agree and am looking at running a thermo on the intercooler radiator as well. This engine also has a knock sensor which is nice. I figure I will need to look at monitoring what is going on as I reeeeeaaaaaally don't want a meltdown so what gauges/sensors would you recommend?
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mightymouse
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Re: Water Air Intercooler
IMO the absolute minimum is EGT, with some experience lots can be deduced from it.
During initial tuning Lambda is essential - but once things are stable you shouldn't really need this for ongoing driving.
The rest I believe should be relegated to warning indicators or an intelligent display with buzzer to draw your attention, there are enough things happening in the cabin without a plethora of gauges which you probably wont be able to concentrate on anyway.
Its really the job for a small computer ( my little Windows CE based Navigation hardware would be a great start... ) that sits and does nothing until something goes out of range and then displays the "problem" its value and screams its head off. Having said that I'm not aware of anything cheap that does this ATM.
Its on my list but not towards the top.......
During initial tuning Lambda is essential - but once things are stable you shouldn't really need this for ongoing driving.
The rest I believe should be relegated to warning indicators or an intelligent display with buzzer to draw your attention, there are enough things happening in the cabin without a plethora of gauges which you probably wont be able to concentrate on anyway.
Its really the job for a small computer ( my little Windows CE based Navigation hardware would be a great start... ) that sits and does nothing until something goes out of range and then displays the "problem" its value and screams its head off. Having said that I'm not aware of anything cheap that does this ATM.
Its on my list but not towards the top.......
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gwagensteve
- Financial Member
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Re: Water Air Intercooler
It's not cheap, but here's an interesting product that kills a couple of birds with one stone:
http://www.hksusa.com/info/?id=3489
available through:
http://www.performancewholesale.com.au/
Although I'm sure MM can come up with a more cost effective way of doing the same job. (jaycar kit?), although this is very neatly presented.
Steve.
http://www.hksusa.com/info/?id=3489
available through:
http://www.performancewholesale.com.au/
Although I'm sure MM can come up with a more cost effective way of doing the same job. (jaycar kit?), although this is very neatly presented.
Steve.
michaelpiranha2000 wrote: The rear is in great condition. but has a broken crown wheel and pinon