Suzuki 4WD Club of Victoria

https://fering.co.uk/

Simple but interesting idea for capable and long range 4wd EVs

Basically deisel electric with genny on board.
Light weight and capable.
Could work in Aus

This is a thought bubble. Those parameters aren’t even remotely possible.

At 200,000 UK Pounds is totally impossible.

It’s not the £200k that’s the problem. The press release is just nonsensical. I don’t even know where to start.

It’s diesel generator can produce 70kw, powered by an 800cc diesel triple. That 800cc motor must therefore produce over 90kw.

Based on their own numbers, 7000km range would require 400 litres of fuel, but once the batteries are flat you’ll be driving a 2200kg + vehicle driven by a 800cc generator. How’s that going to drive?

All the performance figures are based on fully charged batteries, but the vehicle is too heavy and the generator not powerful enough to charge the batteries and drive the car. Imagine this scenario. You’re driving along an a touring trip and reach a steep long climb. The batteries are quite flat. You commence the climb where you need 400Nm, but the batteries are flat. The motor is going flat out but can only deliver 250Nm equivalent into the generator, so that’s what you’re left with to try and climb the hill, or you wait at the bottom with the engine running flat out until you’ve achieved sufficient charge for the task.

Diesel electric locomotives and haul trucks start with an engine sufficient to do the job. A very small battery back working like a capacitor still requires enough power to do the primary task, not a glorified battery charger. This vehicle needs three or four times the battery capacity to be viable.

I could have misread, but I was under the belief the batteries are modular,
so the customer can choose more batteries, and
less fuel, and also have choices of power generation.
Including fuel cell.
Advertising blurb can rarely be trusted.
Engineering secrets are probably hidden, to avoid copy cat companies etc.
They have built, and are real world testing, so they should work out the issues.

Even bad ideas can become popular sellers with good marketing.

I still like the concept.

Big tyres are cool, so could be streetable.
Customers will decide, not common sense or engineers.

The tl,dr version: this idea can't deliver enough power to the wheels to deliver on it's claimed performance parameters and can't carry enough fuel to meet it's range. Something has to give.

Rant on:

I actually just checked their website to see if they'd spotted the typo and fixed it to 700km of range. No such luck. I had a look at the rendering to see if I could spot the 400l fuel tank. Also, no such luck.

Junk like this does irrevocable harm to the EV industry, just like every startup with an EV says it has 2500hp or will go 0-100 in 1.1 second. Unfortunately, unlike a website or marketing hyperbole, a real car has to adhere to the laws of physics.

The UK has a strong cottage industry of this. Design something funky, make outrageous claims, take orders, sink without a trace.

I've read EVO magazine for many many years and almost monthly some new UK made sports car was being launched. It was always designed or engineered by someone notable for added credibility. Typically, some leaky creaky prototype would appear, with an off the shelf engine rather than the 900hp, 12.000rpm V10 built in house by a man called Gareth with metal shavings in his hair and holes in his jumper who quite likes tea. Journalist always says it "showed promise" was "innovative" etc despite not having the real engine, or an interior or breaking down after 5 minutes. Six months later the company has gone into liquidation.

WIth CAD and renderings and wordpress it's now very possible to make something appear like it's fully formed despite not existing beyond a thrown together thing that probably has a renault kangoo transaxle in it to make it move.

The press release is clear the idea has 80km of electric only range. That's not how a range extender works though, it's just a charger. If the charger isn't big enough to work with flat batteries (and crucially, it's not in this case) then the charger has to run to keep the batteries charged well before they're flat or you're going to stop when you get to a hill or something. For a better understanding of this, have a look at the (old) BMW i3 range extender. It's now discontinued. It had a 600cc motor with 25kw or something and in a tiny car with 18kW/h of batteries and had about 270km of range.

My guess is they've done some man maths - at best about 35kW/h of battery would give about 80km of range, which they're claiming. Then the charger fires up and can stuff (apparently) 70Kw into the battery, so in maybe 20 or 30 minutes its fully charged again. Except during that period, the batteries are charging, AND you're driving the car, so with only 35kW/h of battery, the generator will be running most of the time, maybe 70% of the time, because the batteries can't be allowed to go flat - the generator will have to come on with the batteries at maybe 80% or so because you can't risk them going flat or the car will basically stop. Modern PHEV's use satnav to plan battery and engine use to maximise efficiency. That's not an option for an off road vehicle.

It's a bit like using an air tool that uses slightly more air than the compressor can deliver. A big tank will mean you can use the tool for quite a while, but sooner or later, the tool can't work at capacity because the tank is empty and the compressor can't deliver enough air to do the job, so you wait for the tank to fill.

Let's say this thought idea masquerading as car had a 150kw generator, then 35kw/h would be enough battery, but that's not very "eco" - that's a big honking truck diesel like an ISB Cummins running flat out to drive the car and charge the batteries, because 150Kw of charger means 200kW of Diesel power.

This is exactly how the Skybus hybrid busses work. They have exactly the same engine as the non-hybrid busses, they use the batteries for run the HVAC and keep the bus quiet and fume free at the terminals and moving through town. As soon as they are on the Tulla, the diesel runs flat out to charge the batteries and drive the bus.

This is even before we talk about payload equal to it's weight, or 500mm of vertical suspension travel with 2000mm width (remember this has inboard motors, so there's CV shafts etc just like any normal 4WD) or any number of other fanciful ideas.

I'ts not about what it might cost. Money can't bend physics.

Not to mention “everything was designed for light weight” but has 11.00r22.5 prime mover drive tyres on it that weigh at least 60Kg each.

So I take it You don't want one lol.

There will never be one so it’s not relevant. If the actual product ever exists it will have a range of 6-700km, 400mm of ground clearance, and 250mm of suspension travel. That will be far less compelling.

May never go into production, but there is one in prototype testing.
Portals double the value