SWB Vitara Suspension Lift

[Scythe]

I am seeking advice from anyone who has had experience with a suspension lift greater than 2' on a SWB Vitara (1994). I am currently running the OME 2" lift, but find it less than optional on such a low chassis vehicle, and although my body armour working well, it is taking a lot of punishment. I am interested in the Calmini 3" lift ( http://www.puresuzuki.com/3_lift_kit.htm) with an option to upgrade to the front end SAS that Calmini are developing. There is also the Trail Tough SAS (http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=53). If you have any recommendations, or know anything about these options please let me know. Both SAS options involve acquiring new diffs on top of the SAS kit. Also both SAS options seem to involve re-gearing of the diffs to a lower ratio, which would be preferred for the bigger tyres anyway. As I am attempting to keep the vehicle reasonably balanced ( :ie not too radical or extreme) I am seeking to get 31" tyres on without modifying the guards (with an option for 32").

They are all quite expensive options, so I don't want to get it wrong. I am edging towards the 3" Calmini lift, but have some concerns about the stress it would place on the front end components. Any advice appreciated.

Also, if anyone if interested in importing a kit with me and sharing the shipping costs, let me know.

Thanks

Scythe

[christover1]

Just beware, not all USA Left Hand Drive stuff suits our Right Hand Drive Zooks.

No idea if it's relevant to those kits, but worth looking into.

Can't help with any imput other than that, sorry.

Mine runs 31's, 50mm body lift, 50mm coil lift, OME suspension,
and a small amount of guard clearancing(done by previous owner)

[Scythe]

Thanks Christover.

I will check the RHD issue if I decide to proceed.

I am running 29" tyres ATM and find it works nicely with my 40mm body lift and 50mm suspension, other than the ground clearance issue. The engine seems to manage the overall tyre, drivetrain (manual) ratios well , even when towing (rockcrawlers installed for low range). With this setup the is no modification to the body, the flare kits still fits, and (with minor modification to the gear levers) all the consoles and boots fit and work in their original position. I really like the overall set up, but it seems to be just lacking that extra inch of clearance to miss most of the common lumps.

I believe a 31" tyre would be a great compromise (especially with a diff gear reduction - more money "Uhnnn"), as it matches the common 4WD standard (at least prior to many 4 wheelers getting all hell bent on chasing tyre sizes to and beyond 35") 31" tyres would give me some chance of getting over the more common ruts without grinding my belly plates. However, with my current configuration, I believe there would be a fair amount of cutting required to fit in a 31" tyre, especially if any scrubbing were to be avoided.

Based on all this it seems a 3" lift could be a good (yet costly) solution.

For Christover -
Do you get any scrubbing with the 31" tyres?
What is the actual tyre (size and width) you are able to run?
How does the vehicle (engine and diffs) handle the taller ratio from the tyres?

Cheers

Scythe

[christover1]

I believe a 31" tyre would be a great compromise
(especially with a diff gear reduction - more money "Uhnnn"),
as it matches the common 4WD standard.
Christover -
Do you get any scrubbing with the 31" tyres?
What is the actual tyre (size and width) you are able to run?
How does the vehicle (engine and diffs) handle the taller ratio from the tyres?

Cheers

Scythe

I decided to stay with 31's for similar reasons.
Cost and availability outback is also a good reason.

My Vitara is an auto, that compensates for the larger tyers well,
but the auto did need extra cooling fitted.
Still tows my little camper well on the highway and around town,
but on long slow hills the 1.6 is a bit out of its happy rev range.
Being a LWB it is also heavier than a SWB.
My rear tyres sometimes scrape on the plastic flares on full articulation,
but have not hit metal yet.
I have extended my bump stops, and adjusted steering lock a bit, too.
Helps the CV's mostly, wasn't hitting anything up front.
My tyres are worn, so only measure 30 but were 30.5 when new.
Most 31's are no where near a true 31"
I have seen 30's the same size as my 31's

Original owner had 16"rims with 32 x 9's fitted no problem.

[gwagensteve]

Hi Scythe,

Although i don't own a vitara, i do have quite a bit of experience with the calmini 3" kit, having fitted a couple and swapped kits between different moder vitaras.

I have also converted my own Sierra to coil suspension front and rear, so I do know my way around the issues fairly well

FIrstly, the calmini kit is a mixed bag. The front arms and diff drop brackets are good. The front struts are rubbish, the rear shocks are average and the springs are somewhere inbetween. They are very long, but most people find the rear springs too soft and the front springs too stiff unless you run heavy rim offset, and a winch or other heavy accessories. Due to the strange configuration of the vitara suspension, the handling will improve with the calmini kit - the car will feel more progressive and trustworthy instead of tail-happy.

However, quite a lot of the kit is pointless or inferior to what you have now. The front struts, rear arms, rear a-arm and bracketry are all poor or not required, and the strut spacers used in the front will overextend your cv's if you use them with the longer and superior OME struts.

Then there's a proviso too- calmini, for some reason known only to them, don't supply bumpstop extensions to work with their longer springs, so the the springs bottom out and bind. This is why their tech information talks about the springs "settling" over time- this is nonsense- coil springs don't settle unless they are being fatigued by over compression.

In short, I wouldn't consider buying and importing this kit new considering how little of it is worth having.

As for the trail tough trail slayer kit- I am a big fan of trail tough gear and have lots of it myself, however, I think this kit is overkill for what it looks like you want to achieve. Also, the car can never be returned to standard after it is fitted and it is very unlikely to be able to be engineer approved in Victoria, if nothing else due to thle lift height. (which is high-too high for victorian conditions in my opinion.)

The calmini SAS kit is worse than Terrible in my opinion as it starts with a front axle which is too narrow and weak. A wide track Sierra axle is is borderline too narrow and weak for a Sierra, let alone a heavier car that's more powerful and generates more traction.

As for your setup, there are no readily available diff gears to compensate for larger tyres on road. You already have 5.12 gears. I would run two sets of tyres, one for road use and one set for off road use, and fit transfer case reduction gears. Ten the car will drive fine off road with the big tyres and fine on road with the small tyres. When going on trips, you will suffer on road, but that's not all the time.

Out of interest, I'm interested that you will consider a non-reversible radical kit like either SAS conversion, but don't want to trim the guards. With the 50mm body lift you already have, 31's won't require much trimming, and it certainly won't be noticeable, especially if you use some bumpstop spacing as required.

Many years ago we had a SWB vitara in the club with 33" tyres with 1" of suspension lift and no body lift. It had heavy guard trimming and large bumpstop spacers, but looked neat and was very quick and easy to build.

31's on a vitara is a well trodden path and you are most of the way there already. There's no need to start from scratch suspension wise or add another 30mm of suspension lift to run them.

Hope this helps a bit.

Steve.

[christover1]

http://tr.4xfourart.com/4xfourarten/urunic.php?id=3

http://www.facebook.com/groups/142857621652/

These guys do a 5.72 diff gears for Vitara, and will ship to Aus.
Not cheap, and I have not found anybody who has tried them.
Though there is one Facebook friend considering it.
I need a test dummy before I'd spend that much.

[Scythe]

Thanks to all. Your responses have galvanised my choice to not go with the imported lifts. But now I need to get as much as I can out of the limits I have. I was aware of the diff gears from 4xfourart detailed by Christover, and agree, they are expensive. So it begs the question, are they suitably beneficial for a 31" tyre?

I have not seen bumpstop spacers, but assume they are either readily available, or easy to make. (Tips on this please)

Also, although I have always used and recommended OME suspension on my 4x4s I am finding the current ones a little below my requirement, especially if the vehicle is loaded. I believe the springs have lost a significant amount of their original height and capacity even though they are less than 2 years old. (I note that I work the vehicle pretty hard and push it beyond its design capabilities, but I do maintain it well after any thrashing). Is there a heavier spring/shocky option that I could apply to a Vitara that is suited to more "vigorious" but controlled use (not to be confused with abuse)?

As for other points:
1. I have been down the path of 2 sets of tyres before and although I understand and agree with the merits, it doesn't work for me. I just never seem willing to put the road tyres back on, and when I did, there was always a good 4x4 opportunity missed. I don't mind the additional mud tyre noise, and accept the cost of the additional wear.
2. I already have the tough trail rockcrawlers, and agree that they are a real benefit, and the trail tough gear is good.
3. The SAS kit options are quite extreme, but compared to the cost of constantly bashing your belly when tracking with other vehicles who are all on 32"+ tyres and 4" plus lifts, it seemed like a fair question to ask. Thanks for the feedback on your experiences Steve.

So basically, I need to get 31" tyres on somehow, preferably without losing the flares, scraping the tyres, or stressing the motor and drivetrain.

Meanwhile, its back to footprinting as well as I can to stay off rut bulges, and away from the pointy rocks. Somewhat hard to do when the bulge is hidden underwater, and there are trees tight to the left and right. But that's part of the fun; riding a lower spec vehicle down tracks it was never intended to go.

Cheers

Scythe (Air Vitara)

[christover1]

http://www.vic.suzuki4wd.com/forum/memb ... file&u=158

Give Dank a pm, he supplies Dobinsons suspension,
I fitted their struts after my OME failed.
Very impressed.
Rest of my suspension is still OME and going strong.

Theres a dozen ways to extend bump stop rubbers,
and many sellers of them, too.
I just used 40mm square box section to extend mine.
Alloy ones came with a car when I bought it.

[gwagensteve]

There's tonnes of different springs available for vitaras. LWB or GV springs will offer more lift, in fact GV springs in a SWB will give more lift than a calmini kit, but the ride will be pretty rough.

Spring spacers are another option. You will need to space the bumpstops by the amount the springs are spaced, but that's ok. More lift is always a net loss though. Cv angles, alignment, lost wheel travel, poorer ride, rear driveline vibration, ball joint spacing, when really, it's the diff clearance of taller tyres that's going to make the difference, because regardless of how high you lift the front, the rear diff is still hanging down back there to get stuck on, and the only way to lift that is with bigger tyres.

Steve.

[Scythe]

So....

What is the balanced suspension lift/tyre configuration for a SWB Vitara that is intended for hard work?
What gives a good 4x4 return, with the minimal compromise to the stress on the drive train and steering components, but keeps functional highway performance?

Option = OME LWB 2" lift springs front and rear with the SWB OME 2" lift shocks?

31" tyres with standard 5:12 diff and Rockcrawlers?

and good body armour.

??????????