Ragged Edge - Extreme Indoor 4x4

[christover1]

In the ideas infancy, there was talk of the venue being hired out to advertising companies, competition organisers, businessfun days, and the like.
Public use would probably not be the bread and butter, just a way to use the trux and venue when they are unused.

I'm betting anything more than spectator would be out of my financial reach.
Apparently it is profitable in larger populations than ours.
I wish them luck, it takes big cohunas to start a business.

[gwagensteve]

I stopped by the business address today. It's an empty warehouse. No signwriting, no banners, only one scissor lift inside that I could see. No evidence that anything is happening at all- no cars, "terrain" an office or anything. Good location though - about 100m from the kart hire place in salmon street, and in the same complex as an indoor paintball place.

Muggins - it's zoned commercial - they will be able to run at night just like the Karts. tHat's still only going to be 4 or so hours a night of total operation for maybe 3 nights a week though.

Off topic - here I go again

Sam- My guess on 10 hours a week was based on a per car thing. I know you are familiar with business modeling so you might embarrass me, but I'll stick some of my guesses up here anyway. (I am no business owner, but have had lots of exposure to profit/cost modeling in the company I work for)

If I'm right at the cost of running the business, and they have, say, 6 cars, (two tuff trucks and four buggies) the amount of time per week you actually have any one car out will be very small. Take ace karts for instance. I've been driving past there for years on the ring road and have never seen a kart out during business hours in the week. I'm sure it happens, but not very often.

So for each car, my guess is maybe 40 rides per week. At 15 minutes a ride, that's 10 hours of operation a week, or 60 hours total. (that's 240 members of the public handing over their hard earned across 6 cars - so 1440 rides every week of the year.

so basedon some costs - Let's say the business needs $150K per year in overheads and it takes an equivalent of three people full time to run it - another $150K So, 300K per year divided by 3150 hours of operation = $95 per hour cost to pay wages, lease the premises, marketing, insurance, light the place, fuel the cars, fix the breakages replace the tyres etc etc etc. If the cars run more the cost is higher in labour and running costs, but at least the fixed overheads are the same. Still, no debt to buy cars and build the track etc has been built into that.

If my guesses are even close, 1440 people a week to make the business model work at maybe $150 - $200/hr (so maybe $50 per 15 minute ride) seems both likely and very difficult to achieve after the honeymoon period has worn off.

Worked back the other way trying to take the debt into account - based on $50 per ride at 15 minutes per ride across 6 cars at 10 hours per week per car -

$2000 per car per week of earnings - $12000 X 52 = 624,000/year. Lease $65,000, labour $150,000, paying off the cars (based on $40k per car over 5 years - about 900/month X6= 64,000 - we're up to 280K in costs per annum.... and we haven't trashed a car yet, built a track, replaced a tyre, or put a litre of fuel in one or paid insurance. That's only allowing the equivalent of three people full time. I think it will take more labour than that.

It's easy to say corporate events will float it... but that's a hard slog, there's lots of competition for that market- two other businesses within 100m, and they offer obvious competition, which "ragged edge" doesn't. Better add a full time corporate sales person to the labour model...

I don't think I'd invest in it. I'll check it out though.

Steve.

[muppet_man67]

thanks Steve, What makes you think I know anything about business modeling? I worked for a place that became insolvent once. I think your right though after all their estimates the buggies are going to be broken heeeeeps its a hard thing to really estimate.

[cj!]

I sent them an email last week and just got this response tonight.

"Dear 4x4 enthusiast,

Thanks for your previous interest in the Ragged Edge 4x4 Hire/Drive site opening soon in Port Melbourne.

Thought we should give you an update.

Our booking line is now operational and drive opportunities are available from early December.

Also, our web site is to be launched this Friday the 26th of October. It will provide information on our new site, footage of our appearance at the Royal Melbourne Show and some great gallery shots. We invite you to visit the site to get to know us a little better – http://www.re4x4.com.au

We’ll also have a presence at the 4x4 Fishing and Camping Show this weekend Jeff’s Shed in Melbourne .

Yup, we’re pretty busy but we haven’t forgotten about you.

We look forward to seeing you at our Port Melbourne site.

GO HARD !!

- Helmet Boy"

[gwagensteve]

wow 4X4enthusiast@suzuki4WD club.com, that was such a personally crafted response

I look forward to this friday with baited breath....

Steve.

[gwagensteve]

Dropped back past today. Here's the update.

the roller door was up so I dropped in for a look.
Pete's old car was in the shop, along with the tub and rails of another old comp type 40. there were some big diffs and a truckload of 44" swampers/boggers.

Some signwriting was underway, and three buggies are in the build. They're kind of 40 series profile and will have small block chevs in them

They're all tigged and very elaborately fabricated. lots of $$$$ being thrown around. About 4 guys were working on them.

one small corner of the area was being constructed - some earthmover tyres were thrown about along with some logs and dirt, but it may have just been the leftovers from the show exhibit. Some bollards have been installed around the roof support columns.

The word from the fabricators was "come back in a month"

PS still no pricing or anything on the new website.

Steve.

[gwagensteve]

The site has been updated:

Opens on the 24th Jan.

http://www.re4x4.com.au/hiredrive.html

http://carl.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?t=129919

$165/30 mins to drive, $275 for 2 30 min drives and a lap around with one of their guys driving.

The cars look cool.

Steve.

[sierrajim]

No window nets????

Seems kind of silly, doesn't look like a high chance of roll over though.

[gwagensteve]

Another update - I dropped by on Saturday evening, and ended up having a "hot lap" with their driver.

They have three buggies running, all identical except for colour.

Specs are as follows:
Motor: Alloy head 350 chev running straight LPG
Gearboxes: Turbo 400 auto
Transfer: Atlas II Don't know ratio
Diffs are H260 Nissan centres with airlockers and Rockwell hubs/knuckles
Tyres are 44" bogger rear swamper front.
The cars have 4 wheel steer, partially because Rockwell knuckles have rubbish turning angles.
Suspension is Radflo 2" coilover.

The cars have race type seats, full harnesses, quick release steering wheels, window nets (Jim ) double skinned firewalls for fireproofing, and can be remotely immobilised. They are very nicely made.

The track is pretty cool. The cars are AMAZINGLY stable - the side angles they can put them on are very impressive, but there are 2 places on the course where the cars want to lay over, they're prevented by careful track building by placing excavator tyres the cars lean onto. Without them they will go over, but it all feels pretty safe. The course is made of dirt, lots of massive excavator tyres, and some concrete slabs, logs and stuff. There are gates which are conduit hanging from the rafters that control the lines you can take and can be used to score. for a competent group driving, they can be moved in to make it harder.

There are a couple of places where burn turns, both front and rear, are required. It really does feel like a genuine rockcrawling stage once you're in it, although there isn't the need for the big throttle climbs etc that wouldn't be able to be done safely.

Obviously, no real throttle is called for, but the cars sound cool nonetheless, and the track is very tight and they articulate hard - the cars are pretty much flexing hard the whole time, to the extent they are trashing springs and stretching limit straps.

When I was there, they were yet to have anyone from the public pay to drive. To tell you the truth, it would be very challenging - nothing like karts or anything - OK, they're auto and steering etc is light, but they are very hard to see out of and it clearly takes some practice to learn to maneuver the car - especially the rear steer.

The LHF tyre is completely invisible from the driver's seat and the RHF is also hard to see. Even the rears are hard to see as you can't get your head out the window because of the nets.

I'm not running it down - they are proper 44" tyred buggies, so there will be a knack - but I think I would be too slow to pick it up to really get into it by the end of the track. I'm a bit of a slow learner though, so others may not feel this. I'd like to try though, I think.

7-8 guys driving would make a pretty good group to go and do it, and this would get all three cars out and take about 2 hours to get everyone through. For spectators my understanding is there's no cost to put a passenger in a car once you've paid to drive it, and there's plenty to see when the cars are running.

I didn't discuss club rates or discounts. I did get a discount on my "hot lap" though of about 20%

an EOI would be required to progress with this. Obviously any number of people could do it, but a bigger turn out (even of passengers/spectators) would add to the atmosphere. It's certainly better to sit and watch than go karts or something not least because you can passenger and be part of the experience.

I'm not volunteering to run the trip, but I think we do need some idea if anyone is keen to go along. I don't really care either way, but would be interested in being part of a trip that visited there.

Costs are currently $165 for a drive (nominally 15 minutes, but I think this would blow out quite a bit) or $275 for two drives and a lap around with their driver. This would take a couple of hours to complete all up and would be all you would ever want - the 15 minute "hot lap" feels plenty long enough really. Yes it's lots dearer than Karts, but it is a much more involved experience (and much dearer to run) and I think I can see the value for money, even though on face value it looks too much money for what you get. It's comparable money to the V8 supercar type thing though (and I think you get more time in the car, woth a more "authentic" experience)

In any case, as I have discussed before, I don't think it will last (forever, or long, or long at all) so it's worth having a look while it's still running and fresh.

Just some thoughts.

Steve.

[Matthew]

I wouldn't be able to afford the $165 but if run as a club trip I would be interested in doing a hot lap or riding passenger with someone and giving them a bit of cash.

Matthew