GTI conversion

[muppet_man67]

thinking of doing one down the track as they make lots of sence. biggest thing is engine number G13Bxxxxxxx. so vicroads/cops shouldn't blink. 74kw and 113nm is about the same as a carby vitara and better then any jimmy options. also they seem to be a bit more plentiful then jimmy engines and maybe had cheaper.
suzisport apparently do a dizzy adapter, and everything else can be changed over. apart from that its just usual efi stuff. wiring, fuel pump etc.

so why hasn't anyone in the club done it?

[muppet_man67]

saw one at the wreckers today but it had 300,000 on it . what kind of issues? There seems to be more too it then a jimny swap due to the east west issue, but there are simple solutions. As a stand alone car their is a strong enthusiast base, so their is heaps of info out their. Found this forum/sale section http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/vf.13.htm maybe im dreaming but I think a wrecked car with reasonable kms could be bought for about $1000 allowing me to part it out and recoupe some of the costs.

from a $$$ perspective they seem to be very good value fuel injection. People seem to have had success with tubo's as well. (not that I have any intion of doing that.

[muppet_man67]

Mitch were you doing a GTI conversion or just using that as an example.

[gwagensteve]

Have you driven a GTI? They are a really fantastic motor but boy, do they like a rev. They really only want to party from 5k upwards. in a sierra that weighs heaps more than a swift, you're going to feel that torque hole. They're also getting pretty old now and will have had some "enthusiastic" young owners.

The dizzy drive is, from memory, about $560, and I don't know what delivery is like... I get the feeling they don't have much call for them.

That strong enthusiast base works against them - it will hold up the value of motors. I suspect that really really rough motors still sell for $800+ because the conversion and blow up replacement market is strong.

By all means go for it, but they aren't the obvious choice. (but neither is a 660.. so there you go )

Steve.

[muppet_man67]

your right about the dizzy converter, however apparently you can use a mazda 323 and swap some parts around. Steve I'm surprised to hear you talking down revvy engines for a suzuki. with the 6.5:1 gearing a revvy engine is in order. on road some more revs would be nice when overtaking on the highway. It would be interesting to see the torque curve on one and compare to a G13BB for low down torque.

[cj!]

I thought I had a better pic of the power and torque curves for the GTI G13B but I haven't been able to find but here is one I have. This conversion has been done before and it does work but I agree that it will be more like the 660cc conversion where gearing is very important.

[gwagensteve]

Look, the 660 is a stupid idea that works much better than anyone would think. a GTI is a cool motor, best left, IMHO, in GTIs.

I agree that both cars are very gearing dependent, but for slightly different reasons. With the 660 it's because there's not a lot of power there in the first place, and a very definite "sweet spot" from about 3000-5000 rpm. There is little bottom end, but "bottom end" for a 660 means below 2500rpm or so, so if you want to idle stuff you need gears.

When reading power/torque graphs, you're generally looking for the largest spread of torque, or the biggest RPM gap between peak torque and peak power. The point where these two graphs intersect is generally 500-1000rpm above the point you'd normally set as your cruise rpm in a conventionally geared car. ( I mean in a car with a 5 speed manual and not geared for super economy or such) Most manufacturers are trying to achieve this kind of thing, which is part of the reason for light pressure turbos, turbo/supercharging, variable valve timing, variable intake tracts etc.

In the GTI, this sweet spot occurs at about 5500rpm. That GTI torque graph shows a dip at pretty much the same point a stock 1.3 will be reaching peak torque.

With a GTI the real challenge will be keeping it on the boil. It will be grouse on greasy hills and fast dirt, but trying to make it work in high traction situations will be a major challenge.

It's still also a very old tech motor with limited timing control, and will often be over 15 years old - likely older than any other swappable motor.

Don't let that stop you - like I said, 660's are dumb ideas too, but it works for me - a gti might work for you too, but I think you'd need 5.12 diffs.

Steve.