Hi all, I am a retired 50+ guy in SE suburban Melbourne planning to join your club and also buy a hardtop Sierra early next year. It will be my second 4WD after selling an old diesel Pajero some time ago, but I am still a newbie. I want to get out on day trips along with some overnighters as well, if I can ever find a way to sleep in a tiny tent without getting totally pissed beforehand! Been there, done that..I'm enjoying this website and will soak up as much info as I can. My thoughts re mods to my vehicle are as follows:
Decent mud tyres---larger than stock. Thinking about 31s max. Thoughts? Any other work needed to accommodate larger tyres?
A rear auto locker
Decent shocks
A front bar and winch---I'd like to be independent.
UHF (obviously!)
I am no mechanic but am prepared to learn whatever skills I need in order to add the other hundred and one mods also on the list. Also, I am hopeful that my vehicle will already have some of these main mods. Not having to purchase new tyres straight off or a front bar, for instance, will help stretch my budget a lot further. Do I need to consider gearing changes at this stage? I'm after good traction and recovery gear essentially. All the other stuff I can add slowly.
Look forward to meeting you guys and gals, and picking your brains for info,
Cheers, Tony
advice on mods...
Moderator: Committee
Re: advice on mods...
Hi Tony,
Welcome to the group.
A sierra with 31's, gears and a locker puts it right in the sweet spot where you have maximum performance gain for least effort. Once you get beyond that tyre size, everything becomes that little bit harder and more expensive with very little return.
You might find this to be a good read:
http://www.vic.suzuki4wd.com/forum/view ... f=9&t=1644
It's a little write up I prepared a few months back for a few members who were asking the same sorts of questions, but didnt have a pen and paper handy after a club meeting to write it all down.
Cheers,
Greg
p.s. our next meeting is this coming wednesday - and it's even in the south east suburbs of melbourne - maybe we will see you there.
Welcome to the group.
A sierra with 31's, gears and a locker puts it right in the sweet spot where you have maximum performance gain for least effort. Once you get beyond that tyre size, everything becomes that little bit harder and more expensive with very little return.
You might find this to be a good read:
http://www.vic.suzuki4wd.com/forum/view ... f=9&t=1644
It's a little write up I prepared a few months back for a few members who were asking the same sorts of questions, but didnt have a pen and paper handy after a club meeting to write it all down.
Cheers,
Greg
p.s. our next meeting is this coming wednesday - and it's even in the south east suburbs of melbourne - maybe we will see you there.
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ginslinger
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sat 06 Oct, 2012 12:44 pm
Re: advice on mods...
Hi Greg, thanks for the welcome and info. Will stock gearing do the job in the short term? I'm not looking to climb walls but certainly want to keep up! I know from my first vehicle how money just keeps disappearing from the wallet and adds to the credit card....
Can't make this Wednesday but should be OK for the November meeting.
Cheers, Tony
Can't make this Wednesday but should be OK for the November meeting.
Cheers, Tony
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gwagensteve
- Financial Member
- Posts: 2163
- Joined: Mon 13 Aug, 2007 5:20 pm
Re: advice on mods...
Hi Tony.
No the gearing will not do the job in the short term. In fact, if your budget is limited you'd be better with standard tyres and gearing rather than big tyres and standard gearing. There's a few reasons:
When you're talking about a 31" tyre, remember that even though it's small tyre by big car standards, it's a really big increase in size over a stock sierra tyre - 20%. that's equivalent to putting 37" tyres on a patrol or hilux and expecting it to drive OK.
Add to that that Suzuki gearing is pretty tall even standard, so adding 20% to tyre diameter does the following things:
You have to be really hard on the clutch off road.
You have to hit everything fast.
It's hard on the motor because it's always bogging down
You'll never get into 5th gear on the highway (unless you're going down hill)
The end result is that it gets hard to trust the car, and easy tracks start looking hard because as soon as its steep you're stressing out you need a run up, bounding all over the place and killing the clutch.
Adding a locker only makes this worse - the added traction is added load on the motor and makes good gearing even more important.
Victoria is really steep - you don't really get a choice to avoid steep tracks.
To fit 31" tyres, there's a few ways you can do it. A 2" body lift will clear 31" tyres with no other modifications. Here is a link to the best body lifts available for sierras: http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtop ... 15&t=13126
You can avoid the body lift if you are willing to cut guards, space bumpstops, or some combination of both, and there are advantages in lower overall height (and the stability that brings) but they are much more work.
With an open front diff and a locker in the rear, the driveline should be very reliable other than normal wear and tear. If you add a locker to the front, you may start to find the front CV's are the weak point.
Remember though that the most important things to add to your car are recovery gear, a fire extinguisher and diff breathers. These will ensure you can look after yourself and save the diffs from damage by ingesting water.
I'm going to come straight out with the controversial calls:
If you go 4WDing alone, then by all means look into a winch, but if you intend to drive with the club, it's low on the priority list. In fact there's quite a few of us who have had winches in previous cars and don't run them any more. I'm not saying they aren't useful, but in a club trip scenario, it's no big deal. Bear in mind that the cost of a winch isn't just in the winch itself (which are now very cheap) but in the supporting alternator/battery/wiring, mounting and servicing to ensure its reliable and trustworthy. There's nothing more annoying that hanging on a tight winch line with a winch that won't work. It happens more than you'd imagine.
Unless you have fabrication skills and tools, and are pretty clued up on part design, I'm not going to suggest trying to independently mount a winch and bullbar. Much better to purchase a commercial bar like ARB, TSOR or JML gear, which will safely mount a winch.
Likewise, it's not a priority to have a UHF radio for club use. We use convoy procedure that doesn't require radio communication to work, and there's rarely much radio chatter on our trips. A small hand held is plenty for car-to-car communication without having to get out in the rain.
I'm going to make a suggestion as you've yet to buy your car. Consider finding a soft top sierra with a removable hard top rather than a factory (steel) hardtop car. There's a couple of good reasons to do this. Principally, soft tops are much, much harder to damage beyond feasible repair. From your desired modification list, it sounds like you are keen on more difficult terrain, and it's not out of the question that you might have a flop. Whilst these almost never result in much damage to a soft top car, it's quite easy to twist the roof of a hard top badly enough that the doors won't shut or the windscreen won't stay in. With a soft top, all the bodywork above the beltline is replaceable so this damage is only a minor inconvenience.
I know that sounds melodramatic, but I'm just suggesting this out of pragmatism - I've seen it happen a few times.
Secondly, when the weather is good, driving a soft top with the roof off is totally awesome. Visibility is much better, but you can also see and hear whats going on. In winter, you can replace the hard top and have a secure and warm car.
Just some thoughts.
Steve.
No the gearing will not do the job in the short term. In fact, if your budget is limited you'd be better with standard tyres and gearing rather than big tyres and standard gearing. There's a few reasons:
When you're talking about a 31" tyre, remember that even though it's small tyre by big car standards, it's a really big increase in size over a stock sierra tyre - 20%. that's equivalent to putting 37" tyres on a patrol or hilux and expecting it to drive OK.
Add to that that Suzuki gearing is pretty tall even standard, so adding 20% to tyre diameter does the following things:
You have to be really hard on the clutch off road.
You have to hit everything fast.
It's hard on the motor because it's always bogging down
You'll never get into 5th gear on the highway (unless you're going down hill)
The end result is that it gets hard to trust the car, and easy tracks start looking hard because as soon as its steep you're stressing out you need a run up, bounding all over the place and killing the clutch.
Adding a locker only makes this worse - the added traction is added load on the motor and makes good gearing even more important.
Victoria is really steep - you don't really get a choice to avoid steep tracks.
To fit 31" tyres, there's a few ways you can do it. A 2" body lift will clear 31" tyres with no other modifications. Here is a link to the best body lifts available for sierras: http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtop ... 15&t=13126
You can avoid the body lift if you are willing to cut guards, space bumpstops, or some combination of both, and there are advantages in lower overall height (and the stability that brings) but they are much more work.
With an open front diff and a locker in the rear, the driveline should be very reliable other than normal wear and tear. If you add a locker to the front, you may start to find the front CV's are the weak point.
Remember though that the most important things to add to your car are recovery gear, a fire extinguisher and diff breathers. These will ensure you can look after yourself and save the diffs from damage by ingesting water.
I'm going to come straight out with the controversial calls:
If you go 4WDing alone, then by all means look into a winch, but if you intend to drive with the club, it's low on the priority list. In fact there's quite a few of us who have had winches in previous cars and don't run them any more. I'm not saying they aren't useful, but in a club trip scenario, it's no big deal. Bear in mind that the cost of a winch isn't just in the winch itself (which are now very cheap) but in the supporting alternator/battery/wiring, mounting and servicing to ensure its reliable and trustworthy. There's nothing more annoying that hanging on a tight winch line with a winch that won't work. It happens more than you'd imagine.
Unless you have fabrication skills and tools, and are pretty clued up on part design, I'm not going to suggest trying to independently mount a winch and bullbar. Much better to purchase a commercial bar like ARB, TSOR or JML gear, which will safely mount a winch.
Likewise, it's not a priority to have a UHF radio for club use. We use convoy procedure that doesn't require radio communication to work, and there's rarely much radio chatter on our trips. A small hand held is plenty for car-to-car communication without having to get out in the rain.
I'm going to make a suggestion as you've yet to buy your car. Consider finding a soft top sierra with a removable hard top rather than a factory (steel) hardtop car. There's a couple of good reasons to do this. Principally, soft tops are much, much harder to damage beyond feasible repair. From your desired modification list, it sounds like you are keen on more difficult terrain, and it's not out of the question that you might have a flop. Whilst these almost never result in much damage to a soft top car, it's quite easy to twist the roof of a hard top badly enough that the doors won't shut or the windscreen won't stay in. With a soft top, all the bodywork above the beltline is replaceable so this damage is only a minor inconvenience.
I know that sounds melodramatic, but I'm just suggesting this out of pragmatism - I've seen it happen a few times.
Secondly, when the weather is good, driving a soft top with the roof off is totally awesome. Visibility is much better, but you can also see and hear whats going on. In winter, you can replace the hard top and have a secure and warm car.
Just some thoughts.
Steve.
michaelpiranha2000 wrote: The rear is in great condition. but has a broken crown wheel and pinon
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ginslinger
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sat 06 Oct, 2012 12:44 pm
Re: advice on mods...
Hi Steve, mate, that's a fair bit to get my head around! Stuff I haven't read before and I've read many, many mags. Just goes to show...nothing beats experience.
Firstly, I'm not looking for cv busting terrain, being happy to just mooch around on medium tracks with enough of a challenge to put a smile on my face. Some steeper stuff is fine, but no, not looking to push my vehicle to breaking point. I need to learn how to be a competent driver anyway. I guess I just want to be able to keep up on club trips and not hold others up, which means good enough traction and decent clearance. I've been online and have read about the Spartan and Lockrite rear lockers. I do want a locker of some sort and cannot afford the ARB air unit. I'm no fabricator either; sure I want to learn how to do some work but as i said, I'm a newbie both on the tracks and in the shed. I did a couple of trips with the Pajero Club a couple of years ago and also did the 4WD Vic Proficiency Course at Werribee as well.
So, I can pass on the winch; that's fine. I am planning to stick with club trips only, as much as I'd enjoy getting out by myself. I acknowledge the risks in that.
As regards gearing and tyres, what ratios and tyre size would you suggest as adequate for the sort of driving I've mentioned? I've done a bit of searching online and come up with 215/75R15 (27.6in) and 235/75R15 (28.8in). I can see now that 31s on a sierra is a different proposition to the same size on a larger vehicle.
I was thinking about a hardtop purely from the security point of view. But if there is a removable hard top option that is secure then that's fine with me. The open top certainly sounds inviting.
I also intend to drive up the Hume regularly, having elderly parents in Sydney...so I would like to get into 5th! The old diesel Paj seemed happy to cruise at 90-95kph on the blacktop so I'm OK with lower speeds...I have the time.
So, many thanks for taking the time to spell a few things out for me.
Cheers, Tony
Firstly, I'm not looking for cv busting terrain, being happy to just mooch around on medium tracks with enough of a challenge to put a smile on my face. Some steeper stuff is fine, but no, not looking to push my vehicle to breaking point. I need to learn how to be a competent driver anyway. I guess I just want to be able to keep up on club trips and not hold others up, which means good enough traction and decent clearance. I've been online and have read about the Spartan and Lockrite rear lockers. I do want a locker of some sort and cannot afford the ARB air unit. I'm no fabricator either; sure I want to learn how to do some work but as i said, I'm a newbie both on the tracks and in the shed. I did a couple of trips with the Pajero Club a couple of years ago and also did the 4WD Vic Proficiency Course at Werribee as well.
So, I can pass on the winch; that's fine. I am planning to stick with club trips only, as much as I'd enjoy getting out by myself. I acknowledge the risks in that.
As regards gearing and tyres, what ratios and tyre size would you suggest as adequate for the sort of driving I've mentioned? I've done a bit of searching online and come up with 215/75R15 (27.6in) and 235/75R15 (28.8in). I can see now that 31s on a sierra is a different proposition to the same size on a larger vehicle.
I was thinking about a hardtop purely from the security point of view. But if there is a removable hard top option that is secure then that's fine with me. The open top certainly sounds inviting.
I also intend to drive up the Hume regularly, having elderly parents in Sydney...so I would like to get into 5th! The old diesel Paj seemed happy to cruise at 90-95kph on the blacktop so I'm OK with lower speeds...I have the time.
So, many thanks for taking the time to spell a few things out for me.
Cheers, Tony
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Phantomzook
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Sun 12 Aug, 2007 12:06 pm
- Location: NE Melbourne
Re: advice on mods...
This man needs a vitara. With some small mods they are more than capable for medium trips. Learn to drive it stock first rather than mod it and push past your driving capabilities. It will serve you better on the highway than a sierra ever will.
I am not bias to them(vitara's) I have owned both and still drive a sierra.
You will surprised how capable these small 4wds are when you learn to drive them right. Mod them when yourve reached their limits and if you dont you may find you dont require them. Just some thinking out loud. Cheers Daryl
I am not bias to them(vitara's) I have owned both and still drive a sierra.
You will surprised how capable these small 4wds are when you learn to drive them right. Mod them when yourve reached their limits and if you dont you may find you dont require them. Just some thinking out loud. Cheers Daryl
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gwagensteve
- Financial Member
- Posts: 2163
- Joined: Mon 13 Aug, 2007 5:20 pm
Re: advice on mods...
That's a fair point Daryl, but as the OP specified he was looking for a Sierra, it made sense to point him towards setup tips for a Sierra.
Tony, it's really hard to get good suzuki tech advice from magazines. Suzuki's are such as small a part of the market, and are so much lighter and more manoeuvrable than a bigger car that they operate on a different plane.
Yes, a spartan or lock-right will be OK. They're a bit quirky and they're not my cup of tea, but plenty of people run them happily.
Personally, in the case of a sierra, I'd still build for 31's. Pop some 6.5 transfer gears in the case and a 2" BL in the car - it will drive fine on and off road.
Before you make you mind up though, I'd consider coming on a trip as a passenger. You'll get a sense of how the modifications we're talking about work and what the cars are capable of.
Steve.
Tony, it's really hard to get good suzuki tech advice from magazines. Suzuki's are such as small a part of the market, and are so much lighter and more manoeuvrable than a bigger car that they operate on a different plane.
Yes, a spartan or lock-right will be OK. They're a bit quirky and they're not my cup of tea, but plenty of people run them happily.
Personally, in the case of a sierra, I'd still build for 31's. Pop some 6.5 transfer gears in the case and a 2" BL in the car - it will drive fine on and off road.
Before you make you mind up though, I'd consider coming on a trip as a passenger. You'll get a sense of how the modifications we're talking about work and what the cars are capable of.
Steve.
michaelpiranha2000 wrote: The rear is in great condition. but has a broken crown wheel and pinon
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jonfromhamilton
- Posts: 1238
- Joined: Sun 29 Jan, 2012 8:23 pm
Re: advice on mods...
Make sure you get lots of well recognised offroad brand stickers to put all over your windows too.
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porter.8.luke
- Posts: 567
- Joined: Tue 04 Mar, 2008 10:14 pm
