Mid Mounted Winch.

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luigi
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Mid Mounted Winch.

Post by luigi » Wed 06 Nov, 2019 6:22 pm

Hi Fellas.
I am thinking of mounting my winch in behind the cabin on my sierra ute.
Would be good for weight distribution and less likely to be stolen.
But....I just cannot get my head around how to route the winch rope. :?
Has anyone had experience with this , or know of any examples I could see.
Or would it be more hassle than its worth?
Regards. Wayne.


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gwagensteve
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Re: Mid Mounted Winch.

Post by gwagensteve » Thu 07 Nov, 2019 8:09 am

It’s quite difficult. The rope needs to run along the inside of the passenger side chassis rail so getting the rope to lay up neatly on to the drum is difficult.

We solved this with CJ’s ute by mounting the winch facing rearwards behind the rear axle and using two pulleys to turn it back on itself to run along the rail. Used a boat trailer keel roller at the transfer case and a shortened hawse on the front of the chassis. It’s quite a straight shot.

This wasn’t ever used, only mocked up. Two potential problems are the rope going slack and caught up under the car when assist winching (CJ’s car was built around a high mount to minimise this problem) and that all rear winching would be double line pull.

Some comp cars played with centre mounted winches and used tube to guide the rope. It’s now fallen out of favour. In my opinion you almost need to build the car around the placement of the winch.

Do some thinking about rear mounting the radiator, which has advantages of its own, then you can set the winch low and back in the front which counters some of the problems you’re trying to overcome by mid mounting.
michaelpiranha2000 wrote: The rear is in great condition. but has a broken crown wheel and pinon

BZOOK
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Re: Mid Mounted Winch.

Post by BZOOK » Thu 07 Nov, 2019 8:39 am

I gotta say rear mounting the rad is more and more appealing. Only real issue I've had with my vehicle was getting silt in the fins causing over heating until I could flush it a dozen times. Problem solved by rear mounting. Heaps of space left for a winch.
Brenton.

luigi
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Re: Mid Mounted Winch.

Post by luigi » Thu 07 Nov, 2019 9:22 am

Hi Fellas.
Thanks Christover for the links.
Thanks SteveG for the advice.
Yeah, I think it would be a lot of trouble to get right. Would also have to modify and strengthen the chassis in the middle of the car.

When you get time, Steve, can you run thru the method of rear mounting the radiator. I reckon a few of us newbies would be very interested. :idea:
Regards. Wayne.

BZOOK
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Re: Mid Mounted Winch.

Post by BZOOK » Thu 07 Nov, 2019 10:07 am

luigi wrote:
Thu 07 Nov, 2019 9:22 am
...

When you get time, Steve, can you run thru the method of rear mounting the radiator. I reckon a few of us newbies would be very interested. :idea:
Regards. Wayne.
X 2 pretty please.

jonfromhamilton
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Re: Mid Mounted Winch.

Post by jonfromhamilton » Thu 07 Nov, 2019 1:52 pm

yeah steve how do u run the pipes from the engine behind the cab :,(
i will be doing a rear mount rad soon. have the auxilery pump alrdy. will be trying to get a tig and buy the stainless bends off ebay

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gwagensteve
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Re: Mid Mounted Winch.

Post by gwagensteve » Sat 09 Nov, 2019 12:55 pm

Stainless, in my opinion, is an unnecessary expense and hassle. The rest of the cooling system is bare alloy/steel/whatever and doesn't suffer from significant corrosion so I don't see the need to make the piping out of stainless. If you're looking for a project for learning to TIG, go crazy, but that's a pretty serious project to start with - it has to be leak free, it's lots of thin wall buttwelds, and you'll probably need to purge to prevent crystallisation on the insides where you can't reach to remove them.

Aluminium would be preferable for light weight and thermal efficiency.

My piping was all mild steel exhaust tube and has been trouble free for many years.

First task to choose a radiator. I chose an SV21 radiator, other have used XJ cherokee. It's not super important - choose something designed for a ~2.0 litre engine or so that has well designed thermo fans - you want fans that fit neatly and are well shrouded so there'' no wasted radiator.

There is no need for a fancy high efficiency radiator- you don't need to try and maximise cooling in a small area - the whole point is you have lots of room, so choose a readily available and cheap (i.e wrecker) radiator you won't have a ny trouble finding a replacement for. The more boring and generic the application the better. No reason to compete with ricers

Mount the radiator as er the factory. Normally, radiators drop down into the car with pins than sit into rubber bushes, so when you choose a radiator/fan combo make sure you get all the mounting hardware from the donor car.

Mine sits in "still air" behind my cab.I haven't tried to duct air to it. This is one reason to use a radiator from a larger engined donor- let the fans keep the engine cool rather than use speed to try and jam air into the radiator. Our cooling systems need to work with the car almost stationary so ducting needs to be irrelevant in any case.

As I mentioned I used exhaust tube for all my pipe runs. I've tried to minimise the amount of rubber in the system. This is hard to do but the less connections and hose clamps etc the less chance for leaks. My piping runs under the car on the driver's side, outside of the chassis rail. My body lift allowed me to pass the piping over the chassis at the firewall easily, without a BL it will get crowded trying to stay inside the rails on the drivers side as that area already has all the other hoses/driveshafts etc. You'll need to buy a bunch of hoses to get everything to work, and your donor radiator and coolant piping sizes might mean you need to change diameters a few times. I don't remember where all my hoses came from now, they're bits and bobs I had lying around and I bought two long 90˚ bends for up the back of my cab.

The long pipe runs and the fact the radiator cap will likely be higher than the engine complicates bleeding the system. I recommend a bleed on the thermostat housing to prevent air pockets. This has worked well for me.

The system will contain much more water than stock. This is great, but requires a larger overflow bottle. Mine is from a 70 series land cruiser. It's just something I had lying around but importantly it's tall and narrow. Many cars put their coolant tanks on top of the inner guard making them flat, this isn't great for packaging out the back.

For fan switching I use a swift G16B thermal switch. It's was in one of my hard lines close of the engine. more on that later, but you don't want/need a complex fan controller, the factory already solved that problem. Plenty of japanese cars of the 80's and 90's used these fan switches, this was a period when small cars were transitioning from carb to EFI so fan control was not always integrated into the ECU. I you have an ECU with fan control (baleno, for example) just use that.

You will need an external electric water pump. The car will overheat without it. There's now much more frictional loss in the system as it's much more convoluted and the convection flow in a simple front mounted radiator setup isn't going to work effectively. I used Bosch EWP's from a BMW application initially but these weren't designed to be mounted outside the vehicle and they failed. I now have a second hand Davies, Craig EWP which I dislike (it's bulky, shaft sealed not mag coupled etc) but it works and is designed to me outside the cabin, so it will work. I run it all the time (IGN switched) this is a bit silly and it could be switched based on coolant temp etc using a complex controller but simple wins for me. Davies, Craig will happily sell you a very complex and expensive pump and fan switching computer which allows you to ditch the factory water pump and thermostat and gain a gazillion horsepower and improve fuel economy and all sorts of other benefits but I like cheap and simples.

Now some safety stuff:

My system is behind my cab and the fans are meshed to prevent damage to themselves and my fingers. There's lots of very hot water in the system and think about the consequences of a hose or radiator failure if you have a soft top and the radiator is just behind you. Also consider damage to the radiator by light impact etc if it's forming part of the tailgate etc. Hoses etc are bulky and it's difficult to get them into the back of a Sierra without them being vulnerable to cargo damage etc. Radiators can go off like bombs and putting them out in the open maximises the opportunity for burning yourself/others when we're all pushing/standing around a car etc. Just something to consider.

And something specifically about G16's and rear mount radiators.

There is a theory circulating (sorry the pun) about the high failure rates of G16B heads in vitaras and sierras, and it's to do with coolant flow.

In a vitara, the heater piping always receives flow, even when the heater tap is off. This promotes flow from the back of the head back into the water pump. When we put Vitara G16B's into Sierras, we typically hook the heater up as per a G13, which means when the tap is off, there is no flow out the back of the head - all the coolant has to circulate back to the front of the head and this leads to steam pockets and areas of high heat across the head.

In a baleno (or swift) the full coolant flow is across the head - the water pump is at the front of the motor and the thermostat is at the back. coolant flows across the head and isn't deadheaded at the back. If you're planning a rear mount radiator with a G16B, I would strongly recommend fitting a swift/baleno thermostat housing to the back of the head. Even if you have a Vitara or Jimny inlet manifold. I swapped from front to rear thermostat on my car (due to space issues) and it's not only easier and neater to run the piping, it's also restoring flow to the back of the cylinder head.

This was my old arrangement with bosch pump

Image

and the new height my radiator sits at. the old height was to work with the original alloy tray from years ago.

Image

Top mount

Image


Bottom mount

Image

Davies, Craig pump and revised piping

Image

Finished height

Image

meshed in

Image
michaelpiranha2000 wrote: The rear is in great condition. but has a broken crown wheel and pinon

luigi
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Joined: Sun 01 Apr, 2012 8:17 am
Location: Ringwood. Vic. Aust.

Re: Mid Mounted Winch.

Post by luigi » Sat 09 Nov, 2019 6:01 pm

Hi Fellas.
Plenty to think about.
Thanks Steve. :)
Regards. Wayne.

BZOOK
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Joined: Tue 03 Feb, 2015 6:31 pm
Location: Doreen

Re: Mid Mounted Winch.

Post by BZOOK » Sat 09 Nov, 2019 6:45 pm

An excellent write up Steve. Many thanks for your input. I'm concerned about the rumoured issues with the head and the safety issues raised are also of concern.
Brenton.

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